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Author Topic: Fantasy commands in colour.  (Read 13207 times)

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Bertrum

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Fantasy commands in colour.
« on: March 07, 2011, 02:42:53 PM »

I read through the denora.conf and I didn't notice anything mentioning this, but if a users text has colour, they are unable to use fantasy commands such as !top10, !stats, etc. Have I missed something, or is this a bug, or is it just something Denora doesn't do?

Thanks
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Jens Voss

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 03:31:00 PM »

Its not a bug. Its the way how it works. Colours are evil! :-)

Theoretically its easy to strip colour codes before we check for a fantasy command, but do we really want it?
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Fawkes

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 04:15:27 PM »

if have a bigger network, you have to parse each line, which will kill the performance.

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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 08:40:14 PM »

Its not a bug. Its the way how it works. Colours are evil! :-)

Theoretically its easy to strip colour codes before we check for a fantasy command, but do we really want it?

Well I have 5 channel from 5 different websites that use lightirc, and they all like colours and probably all of the users use them, however they also love denoras functions, so yes I say we do really want it :D

if have a bigger network, you have to parse each line, which will kill the performance.

This is true, but how about making it an optional function, that way bigger networks don't suffer from the cruel performance loss you speak of :)

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Fawkes

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 08:45:23 PM »

every piece of code needs to be maintained.. and if you add code for everything, you have to maintain everything.

what about writing a module for that ?


ahh... and it still eats to much performance, beside the maintainance work ....
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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 12:25:34 AM »

Well that's why I brought up this topic, I am aware it would require maintenance and some hard work, I don't dispute that. However that is something for the developers to be concerned about if they did incorporate something like this.

Maybe doing it as a module would be a good idea, if it can be done, however I am not skilled enough to do this as a module.

And you keep mentioning performance issues, perhaps you could give more fine details as to how severely performance would be affected, simple saying it would be affected is not enough.
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Fawkes

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 12:33:36 AM »

And you keep mentioning performance issues, perhaps you could give more fine details as to how severely performance would be affected, simple saying it would be affected is not enough.

if you have fantasy enabled, the services have to scan each line written in a channel.
if you have 1000 users writing a line all 10 seconds will give 100 lines a second.
the services have to scan those 100 lines for commands in 1 second.
but if you add color features aswell you will have atleast the doubled calculating work.
if your services produced 1% load on your cpu before, it will produce 2% now.
but you want to have services with a good perfomance right ? they should react fast if you write a cmd.
but if you add to much of those features, they CANT react fast.

Thats why probably NO core Developer of Anope would implement it.
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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 03:10:36 PM »

Quote
if you have 1000 users writing a line all 10 seconds will give 100 lines a second.
I don't have 1000 users, so the 100 lines a second thing doesn't apply to me, and it wont apply to many others.

Quote
but you want to have services with a good perfomance right ? they should react fast if you write a cmd.
Denora reacts to fantasy commands in less than 1 second, so maybe if it doubled as you said it would, reacting in 1.5 seconds, isn't much of an issue.

Quote
Thats why probably NO core Developer of Anope would implement it.
I would prefer it if they would tell me that themselves.

All performance issues apart, I think it's a valid suggestion, and it is worth looking into, colours are a part of IRC, so IRC software should be compatible with colours.
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Jobe

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 04:23:50 PM »

Based on the performance loss alone this is not something I would impliment, but that doesn't mean Hal9000 won't.
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katsklaw

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2011, 09:55:52 PM »

..., colours are a part of IRC, so IRC software should be compatible with colours.

Colors are a part of the HUMAN aspect of IRC and it's basically designed for aesthetics either locally or globally. Control characters, be it color, reverse, bold or whatever have no business in any command string, !pub cmds or otherwise. Server software like ircds, services or even stats collection have no need to see, parse or even understand control codes. IRCd's simply pass the colors on as part of the text string, but has no clue what a color is.

It's bad practice for software to send colors to clients and it's just as bad for clients to send colors inside command strings as your original comments are in regards to. It's fine for me to play a colored ascii pic to you in channel/private, it's not ok to expect software to understand !op me
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 10:01:00 PM by katsklaw »
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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 12:13:23 AM »

Quote
it's not ok to expect software to understand !op me
I disagree, but who am I to argue this any further?
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Dax Bane

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2011, 01:11:01 AM »

Ok, say you had colored commands, let's throw chanmode +S (or InspIRCd's extban S) into the mix... your colored commands are now useless, aye? :)
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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2011, 01:06:58 PM »

Excellent observation Jamie, however none of the channels that brought this to my attention use "let's throw chanmode +S (or InspIRCd's extban S) into the mix". Good observation though.
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Hal9000

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2011, 04:01:06 PM »

colors are lame
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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 01:31:37 PM »

Lame or not, it doesn't hide the fact they are part of IRC, and they are something that a lot of people use.
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Charles Kingsley

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 02:34:20 PM »

For the reasons outlined above it's not something I'm aware of any plans for and since you're the first person to bring this up that I've seen I do not see any demand for such functionality that could compensate for the performance hit.

You may wish to consider writing a patch for this functionality for yourself but it's not something we have any plans (in Anope, I don't speak for Denora) to look at.
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katsklaw

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 10:11:02 PM »

Lame or not, it doesn't hide the fact they are part of IRC, and they are something that a lot of people use.

You are exactly right on both points, colors are apart of IRC and they are for "people" to use. Unfortunately for your debate, StatServ is not a person.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 10:18:36 PM by katsklaw »
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Bertrum

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 10:26:16 PM »

Unfortunately for your debate, StatServ is not a person.

I really find that a ridiculous thing to say
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Fawkes

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 10:32:13 PM »

just accept that you would have to (re)write that part yourself :>
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Charles Kingsley

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Re: Fantasy commands in colour.
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2011, 07:15:31 AM »

Re-read what I wrote.

Quote
For the reasons outlined above it's not something I'm aware of any plans for and since you're the first person to bring this up that I've seen I do not see any demand for such functionality that could compensate for the performance hit.

You may wish to consider writing a patch for this functionality for yourself but it's not something we have any plans (in Anope, I don't speak for Denora) to look at.

So, write a patch if you want functionality that nobody else does.


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