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Author Topic: Keep Developers Busy!  (Read 6723 times)

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Josh Johnson

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Keep Developers Busy!
« on: September 21, 2008, 06:35:34 AM »

Hi. I got bored and starting poking around other IRC Services after years of using Anope, and I've noticed things that are to be desired in Anope. Below is a short list that would keep developers busy for quite a while if they decide to implement all features.

  • Some sort of StatServ/Statistics
  • "Identify As" - Identify to other nicknames without being on it. (/ns id [nick] <password>)
  • A Flags System
  • Use of NickServ as AuthServ (No nick ownership)
  • The ability to disable or reimplement any pseudo-client
  • Anope should ignore other u:lined servers! It AKILLed NeoStats while I used it due to session limits.

My reasoning for ability to disable (Or change where they're implemented) any pseudo-client (Easiest = leaving directive out in config) is because a lot of people view some of the bots as useless - HelpServ, BotServ, HostServ, MemoServ are all featured in Anope, and some people don't like 'em. :p
  • HelpServ is rather useless unless you use a module to monitor the HelpChannel or something.
  • Parts of BotServ can be implemented through ChanServ, left as a separate client, or disabled all-together.
  • HostServ can be implemented through NickServ, left as a separate client, or disabled all-together.
  • MemoServ can be implemented... you get the pattern.

Those are just my thoughts. I'd most like to see a flags system, but I know you're busy with life and a new version of Anope. I'll be glad to help when I get around to learning C. :]
Please keep this post in mind! :D

Thanks for your time,
 ~SnoFox
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 06:42:52 AM by SnoFox »
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Trystan Scott Lee

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 07:13:38 AM »

Quote
Some sort of StatServ/Statistics

Very much should NEVER be part of Anope, this is why there is Neostats and Denora, cause stats takes huge amounts of time to process through
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Josh Johnson

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 07:34:20 AM »

True, Trystan. Just thought it could be an option.
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Jobe

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 11:20:34 AM »

  • Some sort of StatServ/Statistics
  • "Identify As" - Identify to other nicknames without being on it. (/ns id [nick] <password>)
  • A Flags System
  • Use of NickServ as AuthServ (No nick ownership)
  • The ability to disable or reimplement any pseudo-client
  • Anope should ignore other u:lined servers! It AKILLed NeoStats while I used it due to session limits.

For the stats, Anope and Anope's team push you towards Denora who's support channel is ALSO on irc.anope.org as both the Denora team and the Anope team work closely together.

For identify as, the earliest this could be implemented is the 1.9 branch and im sure, since it's a very popular request, it should be implemented.

For flags, that all depends on HOW you expect them to work, because different users have different ideas.

Use of NickServ as AuthServ, currently not a viable option as Anope doesn't support any IRCd that supports per user "account" settings IRCd side.

For disabling "any" pseudo client, there are at least 2, maybe 3 that should NEVER be able to be disabled. The 2 being NickServ and OperServ, as without NickServ and OperServ you can't manage Anope. The possible addition being ChanServ, which without, Anope simply isn't able to be the package it's meant to be.

For the U:Lines issue, this is possibly an intended addition to 1.9 branch anyway, but also I will point out that if NeoStats didn't bloat your network with so many bots when most of the features could be added into just ONE bot there wouldn't be a problem, as well as the fact you could easily have added a session limit exception for NeoStats using OperServ.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 11:26:15 AM by Jobe »
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Jan Milants

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 11:20:56 AM »

Quote
Some sort of StatServ/Statistics
as Trystan said: cf DenoraStats
it s based on anope anyways. there is such a thing as too much functionality in a single package.

Quote
Anope should ignore other u:lined servers! It AKILLed NeoStats while I used it due to session limits.
you should learn to read Changelogs...
Code: [Select]
07/20 F DEFCON was akilling ulined servers clients.                       [#899]
07/20 F Anope will not limit sessions for ulined servers.                 [#909]

Quote
Use of NickServ as AuthServ (No nick ownership)
NickServ is exactly what its name implies: a nickname services.
What you are asking for is another service. I am not saying it s a bad idea or so, but anope is currently build around the use of nicknames to ID, that is nothing that can be changed easily.. maybe if IRC Cantus is ever finished we can start afresh...

Quote
A Flags System
again.. if/when anope is rebuild on top of IRC Cantus... this one s been on todo for sometime already though.

Quote
the ability to disable or reimplement any pseudo-client
you can disable several by commenting them out in the services.conf, though - obviously - not all because anope depends for everything elses auth on NickServ.

Quote
...Parts of BotServ can be implemented through ChanServ, left as a separate client, or disabled all-together.
Parts of BotServ can be implemented through ChanServ, left as a separate client, or disabled all-together.
MemoServ can be implemented... you get the pattern.
when you are talking about is simply moving all functionality from memoserv and others to nickserv/chanserv.
we provide the ability to disable some pseudoclients with all their functionality. it would be a complete waste of time imo to move functionality of a disabled pseudoclient to another client.. not even considering it would be a totally complicated mess. There is such a thing as too much functionality in a single service.
I have never seen anyone other then you complain that botserv or hostserv are useless yet want to keep their functionality. Some people don't want the functionality and just comment them out, but other then that..
* Viper pets jobe for being 30 secs faster..
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katsklaw

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 01:22:43 PM »

Hi. I got bored and starting poking around other IRC Services after years of using Anope, and I've noticed things that are to be desired in Anope. Below is a short list that would keep developers busy for quite a while if they decide to implement all features.

As politely as possible, just because you was bored doesn't mean the developers are. They are already plenty busy before even considering user suggestions. :)

Quote
  • Some sort of StatServ/Statistics

No. This has been suggested 345645765675 times already (perhaps instead of making a list with your boredom you could have search the forum already ;P)

Quote
  • "Identify As" - Identify to other nicknames without being on it. (/ns id [nick] <password>)

Planned for 1.9

Quote
  • A Flags System

Planned for 1.9

Quote
  • Use of NickServ as AuthServ (No nick ownership)

The entire purpose for NickServ *IS* ownership .. period. If you don't like nick ownership, then you are using the wrong services package .. sorry.

Quote
  • The ability to disable or reimplement any pseudo-client

HelpServ - required. but there is a trouble ticket system module that makes it more useful.
BotServ - optional. Also if you don't want to use it, don't create any bots .. that simple.
HostServ - optional.
MemoServ - required. Along the same lines as nick ownership. When these types of services was invented, the ability to send memos to offline users was called a "feature" and a "convenience". Again if you don't like this ability, you have the wrong services package.


Quote
  • Parts of BotServ can be implemented through ChanServ, left as a separate client, or disabled all-together.

ChanServ isn't supposed to be in any channels to start with, again that is part of the fundamental design of this type of services package. BotServ was added for those that continually whined about not being able to have ChanServ in their channels. Again, BotServ is optional as is it's features.

Quote
  • HostServ can be implemented through NickServ, left as a separate client, or disabled all-together.

I agree, HostServ can be.

Quote
  • MemoServ can be implemented... you get the pattern.

I agree, it can be.

In closing, If having the total of 5 bots on your network is that much of a worry, you obviously have very few users. Once you get more than 20 real users, you can't even tell how many bots you have. That's spoken from experience. I would like to say that Anope is not for everyone. NickServ/ChanServ style services are just one type out there. If you don't like nick ownership or having seperate bots for seperate functions. Then you have the wrong package. NickServ/ChanServ as well as the ideal of nick ownership was invented by DALnet in 1994 and their software made them the largest network peaking at about 140,000 users before the year 2000. That's from a few hundred users to 140,000 in 6 short years, they obviously did something right. DALnet has 6 bots to our 7. Root/Oper/Nick/Chan/Memo/HelpServ. Also this type of services is the most popular in the world with very few fundamental complaints. So I'd have to say that there is nothing wrong with how things are set up as-is.

I'll also refer you to X3 Services which already do all of what you just asked.

As with all these can do this or can do that suggestions, Anope is supposed to be simple yet powerful. Not overly complex. Most users don't like to spend all their time tweaking and configuring software, they just want to chat. when it comes to services, the old saying of "less is more" is very true. having 3 different configuration options for each bot is .. well .. just plain confusing.

Good Luck.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 01:28:45 PM by katsklaw »
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Josh Johnson

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 04:57:43 PM »

I understand what you all are saying. Some of the stuff, like reimplementing BotServ into ChanServ, were other peoples ideas. I just posted for them. :P

Flags and Identify As is mainly what I posted for, but I think the Identify As command would break some IRCd things, because it usually sends the 330 numric - logged in as, while regular NickServ just sends the 307 numric, registered nick. So I thought, if Identify As was implemented, it wouldn't be hard to also stick No Nick Ownership in, and use NickServ as AuthServ.
I only point that out because:
Quote from: Jobe
Use of NickServ as AuthServ, currently not a viable option as Anope doesn't support any IRCd that supports per user "account" settings IRCd side.
-Also, yes Anope does.
  InspIRCd, for example.

As for BotServ and HostServ being optional, I didn't notice.

HelpServ's trouble ticket system - Isn't this 3rd party? I think I used it before, and crashed Anope a good share of the time. I finally unloaded it.

And no, Viper. I haven't read the change log for a while. :P

Anyway, I do like BotServ and HostServ, I was just posting some other peoples ideas for you to ponder. I'll leave this thread alone unless you guys wanna continue talking. :D
Hope to see Flags and Identify As in 1.9. :)
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katsklaw

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Re: Keep Developers Busy!
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 05:35:34 PM »

personally I don't see anything worth pondering over.

Some of the things you mentioned won't happen, some are already under consideration, the rest is either not worth the extra coding or is a contradiction to the spirit of NickServ/ChanServ style services.

ciao
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