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Author Topic: os_notinchanlist  (Read 5236 times)

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Romeo

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os_notinchanlist
« on: July 10, 2013, 08:04:40 PM »

Can a new module or script be written for 1.9.8? Currently using it on my 1.8.8,  But im slowly thinking about going live with 1.9.8
 And with that said, im not gonna lie, i really need notinchanlist. Even if its not auto-mated. At to be able to manually run it would be a great start. Thanks ahead!
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katsklaw

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 08:54:42 PM »

while I understand that some types of bots don't join channels .. you do know that there are actual users that don't either and you run the risk of killing innocent victims with that module, right?

Couple that fact with the fact that if you run a proper bopm/ircbl scanner on the ircd, this module wouldn't be needed as more than 99% of the bots will fail to connect in the first place.

Just sayin ...
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Romeo

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 08:26:39 AM »

I understand Katsklaw. But honestly im not gonna say i dont kill people. But thats not what i use it for. In 1.8.8 I use it to force join ppl to a chan called #idle. And in there, the topic and greeting tells you why u were joined there and what happened. And to please fix that.  And part the channel when u finish. Most ppl fix it and go on with their business. So stay idling in the channel for 7 days straight. Yet, their idle/away time does not reflect that. Now that enuf of a warning to me. 
Before i just activated the automation of the script  only 1 person would manually run this script, and from what she told me, 4-5 times a day was good enuf
 So with that being said, im not using it to be spiteful or revengeful, im using it to keep dummies out, and help those who are lost.
And i am running bopm, so it does catch those bots if they come. But it would be nice to not have 15 - 20 idlers who arent using proxies just idling in server with no joined channels.
Basically, im not running /os notinchanlist kill
Im running /os notinchanlist join
The only bot that does any killing is bopm. Letting bots kill is a high risk!
Please :-)
ps: if u make the module with just the JOIN function on there Im great with that! i dont need the other stuff  I can run it manually   
Thanks
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 08:40:41 AM by Romeo »
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katsklaw

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 01:51:36 PM »

Lets look at some things here.

"I use it to force join ppl to a chan called #idle."

Forcing users to do anything (other than nickservs guest) is bad, not good. IRC has existed and survived for more 20 years without opers "forcing" users to do things, like join a channel. There is nothing wrong with NOT being in a channel. It's completely optional and not joining a channel do not suggest malicious activity or intent. That paranoia is fairly new because someone somewhere along the line determined that no chan means bad user. Some of that comes from malicious bots, but it is not a sign of maliciousness.

"And in there, the topic and greeting tells you why u were joined there and what happened. And to please fix that."

There is nothing to "fix" because nothing is "broken". Again users have the right to NOT chat in a channel. I do it quite often to be honest because of various reasons. Forcing a user to join #idle, an activity users are not interested in will only cause a bunch of users idling in a channel they will not speak in because they are not interested in the channel. If you are lucky and don't run your users off, you still wont see any activity from them.

"Most ppl fix it and go on with their business."

This is because they don't want to be G:Lined for disobeying an IRCop.

"So stay idling in the channel for 7 days straight."

This is because they are not interested in your channel in the first place.

"Yet, their idle/away time does not reflect that. Now that enuf of a warning to me."

Chatting is not the only thing that affect idle time. Many clients, especially mIRC (the worlds most popular client) has special settings that help the user dictate when their idle is reset and I assure you that even a simple mIRC script can keep a users idle time low and the user not even be at the keyboard.

low idle times on non-responsive users is not a "warning". It simply suggests that the users client/script is what's keeping the idle low.

Interesting fact: One of the oldest mIRC scripts is a keep alive script, it's purpose was to periodically interact with the server to prevent their dial-up connection from being reset by their ISP for lack of activity.

"But it would be nice to not have 15 - 20 idlers who arent using proxies just idling in server with no joined channels"

If you don't want to "see" 15-20 idlers, then stop looking for them. Said 15-20 idlers will still idle, even if they are in a channel. Being in #idle changes nothing except ones paranoia level.

People like myself, and there are a lot of us!! Do not appreciate being "forced" to do anything. This is especially true in regards to joining channels we have no interest in. We will leave your network never to return. I have done so countless times. I actually have an excel spreadsheet that I record all the nets I've "blacklisted" because they force me to do something.

Users are not cheap! The only thing harder than getting users is keeping them. In this day and age of IRC, users are a very precious commodity and networks are a dime a dozen. I have thousands of nets to choose from and you'd be hard pressed to keep me as a user if you insist I can't mind my own business.

Hope that helps.
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Nimueh

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 08:09:12 PM »

I signed up just so I could reply to your posts katsklaw - which I quite frankly find to be so very wrong.

First off - I've been Netadmin/Services Admin on 2 networks for a few years now, so I didn't just start this yesterday or something.
But your attitude is just so wrong in so many ways.

"There is nothing wrong with NOT being in a channel. It's completely optional and not joining a channel do not suggest malicious activity or intent."
That depends on where you're at - any private server/network WILL have rules and if one of them happens to be "Don't idle on the server without being in a chan" then it's no longer optional. Either join a chan or disconnect from the server, it's really simple.

"There is nothing to "fix" because nothing is "broken"."
I've had quite a few users in my #idle chan that had no idea how to use autojoin on connect, or how to join a chan that's +i - so yes, sometimes something DOES need fixing.

"... if you run a proper bopm/ircbl scanner on the ircd, this module wouldn't be needed as more than 99% of the bots will fail to connect in the first place."
The one network I staff at unfortunately already uses a newer version of Anope without the notinchanlist module. We also run an excellent DNSBL scanner, but last year when we had an issue with botnets we still had several 100 of them come through in multiple waves, while DNSBL was glining 1000s. Glining them all by copy/pasting individual nicks from the server/services window takes way longer than being able to tab-complete the nicks in #idle, which is when "notinchanlist join" would've come in handy.

"That paranoia is fairly new because someone somewhere along the line determined that no chan means bad user. "
Which in a lot of cases it is. I've seen 2 types of bots on my nets: One type joins the top 5 or so visible chans and spams them to hell and back, while the other type just sits on the server without joining any chans and either tells the botmaster "Hey, it's safe to come here, send more of us!" or just proceeds to try and spam services.

I don't see what the big deal is about notinchanlist and "forcing" users to do something they don't want. They joined the server, they read the rules (or maybe not, but they're there to read) and basically agreed to the terms. Nobody is asking to get the kill switch implemented here, but I don't think notinchalist is any worse than svsnick, sajoin or shun - all those "force" a user to do something they probably didn't want, does that mean you'll remove them too?

Anope is a "software" and you shouldn't use it to "force" your opinion on other networks/opers. The module is optional and nobody has to use it, but those that chose to do so shouldn't be deprived of it.

Just my 2 cents.
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katsklaw

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 08:38:21 PM »

"First off - I've been Netadmin/Services Admin on 2 networks for a few years now, so I didn't just start this yesterday or something.
But your attitude is just so wrong in so many ways."


I've been a Net Admin for nearly 20 years, not just a few and have opered on a 140,000+ user net. Our opinions may differ but that doesn't mean I'm "wrong". If I am "wrong" explain how large 10,000+ user nets have survived for 20 years without forcing users to join a channel. They survived because it's not required. The fact they don't use unreal/anope might have something to do with it too.

Good Luck with your module.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 08:44:35 PM by katsklaw »
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Nimueh

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 08:49:08 PM »

You're "wrong" because you seem to think that each and every network out there is the same.

Does everybody drive the same car you do? Wear the same clothes, have the same haircut?

NO, because people are different and so are their needs and likes. You trying to force your likes onto others = wrong in so many ways.
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Harold

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 08:30:22 PM »

i  use it   to  see  who all is  ideling on  the network
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katsklaw

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2014, 01:00:00 PM »

i  use it   to  see  who all is  ideling on  the network

It does not show you everyone that is idling, it only shows who's not in a channel. There is a huge difference.

It's possible to be a malicious bot and be in several channels and it's also possible to be an active and real chatter and not be in any channels.

In short, this module only shows who's not in a channel. The module cannot show or prove the intent of users. I connect to small nets all the time and may be connected for several minute while deciding if I even want to join a channel. As a new user I like to look around before committing to a channel and I promise you that if you PM me or /kill me for not joining a channel right away that I'll never return to your network and I know I"m not alone in that feeling.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 01:06:15 PM by katsklaw »
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Romeo

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Re: os_notinchanlist
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 08:22:25 PM »

Well mine was set to run every 3-4 hrs, so if u came in and were idling for hours before joining a channel, you would be forced to join #idle. After 3days or so of u just idling in idle, and no other channels, either you are not interest or u are a bot!!, SO KILL it is.!
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