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Author Topic: Can you PLEASE make the installation steps a little bit easier?  (Read 8791 times)

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burek

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Can you PLEASE make the installation steps a little bit easier?
« on: September 19, 2006, 09:21:49 AM »

Hi,

I've installed Anope on my computer (WindowsXP Pro sp1, Unreal Ircd 3.2.5) and in no way I was able to start it without getting the message saying my config file is wrong.

Ok, I know it must be something wrong, obviously. But why am I so desperate? Because you couldn't provide a single working example config file. I mean, there is an example.conf but that example cannot work until you uncomment some lines, so basically that example config doesn't work too.

What am I trying to say is, many people have problems with configuring Anope because of the very large config file, which has to be read throughly in order to configure it correctly. The main problem is, while reading the example config file, people cannot hold a focus long enough to avoid mistakes. So it would be nice if you could do 2 things:

1. Move the most important parts of the config file to the top. This can also be done by placing some #define's at the top, which will be used later in the conf file if you don't want to break the structure of the conf file.

2. Create the example1.conf with some real stuff in it, that can be used to immediately start Anope (no matter if it cannot connect to the irc server), but this is to demonstrate an example of how the config file could look like.

OR

Create some config check utility that will display info what is wrong in the config file and not just terminating the Anope without any info about what the mistake was.

Thank you for reading this.
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Jobe

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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 10:22:27 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by burek
which has to be read throughly in order to configure it correctly.


As you said yourself the example.conf file has to be read to configure Anope. If you dont read the example.conf file as you are experiancing Anope simply wont work properly. A working example.conf file cannot be provided for 2 reasons. First of all there is ALWAYS some settings which you have to configure for it to work regardless of defaults. And second the IRCdModule needs to be set appropriatly because not everyone uses the same IRCd.

Some of the settings that need to be changed include the UserKey's, RemoteServer, ServerName, ServicesRoot etc... Everybody's IRCd setup is different and for this reason there is NO defaults that will work with everyone. So providing an example config file that you can use ant Anope will run is just not possible.
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Dave Robson

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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 10:30:52 AM »

While i relaise asking you to read a whole document is, well, demanding, i find it hard to believe that people seriosuly cannot "hold focus" long enough to do it - its not like we dont allow to take a 10 minute break or anything.  Id be supprised if it took anyone as long as an exam (a real exam lasts for 3 hrs, at least in the uk) and everyone is expected to "hold focus" for at least that long or just fail - personaly i find it a little lazy that people seem to expect things to just work without having to read/learn/do anything at all.  until someone invents a computer that can read your mind to know what it is you want, you will still need some way of telling them which will no doubt involve actaully doing something on your part.

Anyway, in answer do your points:

1.  Supprisingly you need to read it all, they are all valid options, and all should be considered important... so which go at the top.

2.  the example config dosnt work because each network requires _diffrent_ information, there is no generic config we can include that will just work everywhere.  However, if you think its possible by all means create one and send it back to us, we'd love a generic will always work no matter what, needs no human interferance config file.

--

Reagrding the OR option... The main reason for this is anope was never built to be run as an icon (im not making excuses, i realise there is a problem here, we'll get to it in a sec) as such, it expects the user to be able to read the errors it prints out telling them what is wrong with the config.  Temporary solutions can be to simply open a cmd.exe box, and start anope from there, which will allow you to read the messages it prints out.  Look in the log file (assuming it gets that far before an errror) and you can see errors in there.

A possible solution to this would be, for win32 systems, if we are exiting due to an error at startup, insisnt on a key press, that would stop windows from hiding the cmd box as soon as it possibly can and give people a chance to read the error messages.

A config check utility sounds intresting, if you want to make one and send it back to us im sure we will consider it for anope.  

I dont mean this to sound mean here, or like im just dismissing your ideas/suggestions/comments, but im curious if your willing to help address any of the problems you raised.  For example, if the config is too confusing, would you be willing to submit documentation about we could include in anope?  Would you be prepared to offer a simple "10 step guide" we could include in anope, which covers the real basics which you seem to think we missed out.  How about a few FAQ questions that could document the common pitfalls, all the ones you encounted and how you fixed them etc....  There are a number of ways both technical and non-technical people can help when something bothers them, most people however dont do any of this but expect someone else to.

p.s. I take it you got it to work in the end?
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burek

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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2006, 12:52:41 PM »

Look, I agree there is a lot of work already involved, because I'm a developer myself. So, if any help is needed, here I am.

Anyway, I don't want to say that config file should be shorter, because it is generally a good idea to make a lot of options users can configure to personalize their copy of the software, but some settings are more important and generally those are marked as [Required] in your example.conf...

Also, it would be good to make 3-4 versions of working example.conf (for Unreal, hybrid, etc.) but if that is so much of a work, could you please tell me where is the log file, since I didn't see any by now :(

I didn't want to insult or to lower the importance of your work, I'm just saying that you could do it better, although, I know also, these "user comments" like mine are more destructive than creative, but still.. Better to have them rather than not ;)

Anyway, I would like to help, but how do you expect me to help if I'm not the part of your team? If you know exactly how could I help, please let me know, and I'll help. At least I'm willing...
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Dave Robson

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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 01:20:55 PM »

Hi,

There are a number of ways anyone can help, for the more technical they can submit code, bug fixes etc... we have an open svn repository, and to get the latest code:

svn co svn://zero.org/repos/anope/trunk anope

along with a web interface: http://dane.zero.org/websvn/listing.php?repname=Anope&path=%2F&sc=0

Doxy gen documentation of the current code base is available: http://anope.zero.org/doxy/

A bug tracker is available here: http://bugs.anope.org/ - this can give people a good idea of what patchs we really need.

For people who dont want to submit code, the wiki could always use more information, such as configuration gides etc...... ( http://wiki.anope.org )

In relation to your offer specifically, you could put forward some example configs that we could include, as mentioned you could make some nice easy to follow and simple documentation we could include to explain how to configure anope, or pick a bug from the bug tracker and submit a patch.

The logs are in the "logs" sub folder.

Anyway, the point is anyone, litrally anyone, is free to help out, we dont need to say "ok, xyz is part of the team" before they can do anything :)

like i said, i dont mean any of this to sound mean or anything, and really, im not trying to just dismiss your initial issues.
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Tom65789

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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 06:47:28 PM »

all this reminds me to finalize the config wizard i was making..... dunno what i got up to with it \o/

Jobe

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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 06:56:47 PM »

Sounds interesting Tom65789, will it have an Advanced mode to allow more specific configuration (apart from editing the file yourself)?
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Tom65789

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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 07:09:44 PM »

when i can be bothered lol. was on the to-do but im lazy and i like to code things fast just so they work :7

Charles Kingsley

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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 10:28:28 PM »

You owe me a module too newb.
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Tom65789

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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 10:54:50 PM »

life is busy darnit. i wish it would slow down tbh :<

n00bie

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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 12:11:58 AM »

Ok, the < strong >example.conf< /strong > is clear enough for a NETWORK ADMINISTRATOR who tends to run his or her own network. But a little suggestion came into my mind and that is... a separate examples.conf in different languages :)
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owine

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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2006, 12:22:08 AM »

as far as im concerned, if unrealircd.conf (or other ircd conf file) and services.conf as well as ./configure && make && make install (on *nix)  are too complicated for someone wanting to start a network, maybe they shoudlnt be running a net.
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katsklaw

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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2006, 02:03:33 AM »

Every task seems complex to those that have no clue as to what they are doing. That said .. it's not possible to make installation "easier" than it already is.

In my humble opinion, most services and ircds are already way to simple to install as it is. For those that find it difficult, I mean no disrespect, but a certain level of competence is required to be an IRC Administrator. That is gained through experience as a user, then as an oper, then as a server admin and then finally after a few years of being an IRCop, one may have enough skills and knowledge to try Network Administration.

A person can't go from first grade to college and expect to understand. Be honest with yourself and be humble enough to know that if you don't understand a simple connection procedure then you may not be fit as a net admin.

Just my 2 cents.

[Edited on 20-9-2006 by katsklaw]
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