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Author Topic: MODULE REQUEST: SpamServ  (Read 9866 times)

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demon

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MODULE REQUEST: SpamServ
« on: December 19, 2006, 09:45:46 PM »

work like the SecureServ of NeoStats.. put pseudo clients in chans you specify (with nicks/idents/hosts you have set) and check for spams..

You may say.. there is neostats for that.. yeah but it wouldnt be more useful and easier to have that service by having it as a module and not as a whole new server of services? (or alone one server for one bot?)

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Jan Milants

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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 11:49:36 PM »

usefull maybe to some smaller networks, but once the network gets a little bigger this would only add  up to the load on serivces.. much worse even then fantasy which only looks for a few things always starting with a certain trigger, this would have to match every message in every channel against a while list of wildcard or regex filters...
so if you would have a botnet spamming some of your channels all of your services would become useless because anope spends most of its time checking each channel message against a list... sometihng that uses up a lot of resources, and while anope is doing that, nickserv chanserv operserv, etc would be seriously lagged...
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demon

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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2006, 12:12:03 AM »

Nice info..

If that feature (spamcheck) would be included on botserv bots? (making them cycle chans by a command every X time and also check for www.* http* and some others ..) ? would use less resources?

Thanks
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Jan Milants

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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2006, 12:16:46 AM »

it would use less then having 2 services clients in the same channel yes, but then botserv bots weren't really made for that, they r supposed to sit there looking for floods or fantasy commands....

and actually it just croses my mind botserv bots can allready so something like this, but much more limited, cf BADWORDS...

fact stays, it s not a good thing to just want everything done by a single service, cause that also means a single point of failliure...
you could try searching on this forum for statserv and look at the discussions around that and why there too we argumented it s a bad idea to include it in anope.... basically the same as i allready said though...

[Edited on 20-12-2006 by Viper]
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demon

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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 12:19:11 AM »

I see your point..
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Jobe

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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 12:48:08 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by demon
Nice info..

If that feature (spamcheck) would be included on botserv bots? (making them cycle chans by a command every X time and also check for www.* http* and some others ..) ? would use less resources?

Thanks


As you mentioned in another thread about the use of UnrealIRCd i think its best at this point to mention Unreal's spamfilters which do exactly this, taking action on users for saying, doing somthing, or even having a certain neick!user@host mask.

Secondly services are there to manage nicks/channels/users not to monitor for spam.

A lot of people dislike services that have god knows how many *Serv's and i know im one. Its one of the reasons i dislike KickServices which has OperServ, AdminServ, RootServ which basically do what Anope's OperServ does alone.

[Edited on 20-12-2006 by Jobe1986]
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demon

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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2006, 04:54:44 PM »

i think you support other 10-15 ircds except Unreal.. so here is not again the Unreal thing..

Thanks
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katsklaw

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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2006, 06:59:47 PM »

Demon,

One of the things that IT professionals do that helps protect the overall "health" of their network is to divide tasks up and assign them to different machines on the network. This in a way creates the same effect as having all the tasks on 1 machine and to users it's identical.

However, if you have most or all of your tasks on the same machine, all it takes is a tiny hardware failure to wipe out your entire network. With the workload seperated, only the affected system's tasks stop and not the entire network. This is true on IRC networks as well.

Most of the modules you requested are 1 already handled sufficiently or are features in other programs. It's wise to run several programs instead of trying to get them all into services. You should run ircds, bopm like applications, statistical services, spam detection, channel and operator services ... etc .. on as many different machines as possible. Cramming even most of those tasks on one machine will make you very unhappy if that machine should fail. You want all those services on seperate computers. You WANT to have several applications and you WANT to have them spread across several machines. Not all crammed into 1 single Uber-application.

Let the ircd handle user connections, let Services handle nick and channel registrations, let the proxy scanner handle the proxies and let NeoStats handle it's part.

Anope is one of the most popular IRC Services packages out there. Anope is popular for a reason, that reason is it's rock solid, well maintained and it does it's job and ONLY it's job and does it well! That Job is handling Nick/Channel management as well as some IRCop networking tools to enhance the ircd's ability to manage users. The IRCOp tools are there because as you like to point out, not all ircds have a built in global banning system, nor do all ircds have the ability to limit the number of clones connecting. Anope is not a spam detector, it's not even really supposed to be a bot services, but aleast with BotServ, channel management is enhanced and augmented. Anope is not an emulator of other IRC applications, it's not a love/lame/spam/secure/war/text/fartserv.

Quote

i think you support other 10-15 ircds except Unreal.. so here is not again the Unreal thing..

YOU use Unreal, therefore use it's spam filter. The rest of the IRC community can speak for it's self and doesn't need a self appointed spokesperson requesting features/modules for them. You've said more than once" I don't use it, but others might .." Good! let the "others" request it.
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demon

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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2006, 07:10:47 PM »

As i said many many times if you dont like them dont code them! none told you to do so! i just request things that i found in other ircds and many network owner's i have spoken all those years in irc have told me that would be nick to be available.. To inform you there are networks with 10-15 users not because dont want more but because have been created for that reason (forum, chat of a site etc).. I dont think that that kind of network with 15-50 or even 250 users would have the money, the staff, the machines etc to seperate all those tasks.. so for 15-50-250 users anope should be possible do them without lagging and without any stability problem.. Module inform users about the resources a module use.. if someone is that stupid and go use a module like that in a net with 10.000+ users its his problem.. dont mean that anope are not good services..

I dont use Unreal i hate it.. has that many features and dont give the ability to users to choose if want them or some of them or not..  That is what i want to NOT be anope! Have ALL damned features every damn lamer want but also the ability to choose if you like them.. So enough with pointlessness of my suggestions

Thanks
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Jan Milants

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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2006, 08:33:06 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by demon
I dont use Unreal i hate it.. has that many features and dont give the ability to users to choose if want them or some of them or not..  That is what i want to NOT be anope! Have ALL damned features every damn lamer want but also the ability to choose if you like them.


i m not gonna say it s pointless, imo it almost never is, but a lot, if not most of the things you requested are things that can only be done by implementing it into the anope core and thus forcing the feature onto all users.... exactly the same thing you said you don't want to do. Modules can easily add features, even disable some existing ones, but it s much harder for them to modify things implemented by the core, unless the module would reimplement everything that s allready in the core and disable the processing in the core.. if that s even possible at all.
An example of the is for example adding registered time which can only be done by reimplementing the entire info command or giving users who have been longer on a net a longer expire time, which i think would be entirely impossible without modifying the core.

if it could be easily done by a module, no1 who doesn't need it would care but - and this is where the problem lies - many of the suggestions are rather core feature requests, and well... reacted on accordingly. I can't really blame you for suggesting it though because for people who don't know the more technical details it s much harder to realize what a module can do, and what it can't.... actually i m not even 100% i m right with everything i said, but i don't think i ll be off a lot..

just my 2 cents...:)
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demon

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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 11:23:55 AM »

Viper exactly because i dont want anope to be like unreal i suggest that as a modules in module section.. but some guys here know more about tech said that that cant be done by a module but have to be done in core etc.. I dont know if it is possible to not.. i just suggest.. if i knew those things you said probably i could have code those features in my own :)

Thanks
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Trystan Scott Lee

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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2006, 03:50:00 AM »

The anope api is flexable enough to do this.. the problem is the overhead that it places on to services, like stats or anything else there is extra time that services has to take to process something, on a small network this would be doable.. but with a large network this might bring services to their knees..
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