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Author Topic: MODULE REQUEST:NS & CS SPY INFO  (Read 9804 times)

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demon

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MODULE REQUEST:NS & CS SPY INFO
« on: December 19, 2006, 08:20:49 PM »

Module that will spy when someone make /ns info on someone's nick (of course if the user with the nick in online and identified)

Would be nice if possible,founders of chans and/or successors to be informed if someone make /cs info on their chan

Thanks
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katsklaw

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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 10:15:32 PM »

pointless. There is no good reason why an IRCOp needs to know everytime a user accesses services for trivial information.
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demon

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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 10:27:27 PM »

Firstly that is module.. none said to be done in core.. or you have to make them etc..
Secondly there would possible be a command to enable/disable that..
Last but not least the +W mode most ircds use to report /whois actions are pointless too.. thats why all of new ircds support it!

Thanks
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Jan Milants

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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 11:52:27 PM »

he has a point... if users can get notified when some1 uses /whois on them, why not do the same for /ns info.. doesn't mean i see the point in being notified though...
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demon

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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 12:26:25 AM »

of course viper.. is not the most important thing .. but as we have that with whois why dont we do that with /ns info and /cs info ? :)

Thanks
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Jan Milants

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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 12:32:53 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by demon
we have that with whois why dont we do that with /ns info and /cs info ?

partially because the first we is a different we then the second one i think lol.
+W is an ircd feature, and not all ircd have it, depends on where the coders' priorities lie...
i don't mind having this as a module though, some people might like it whereas others won't see the point of it, remains their choice...

[Edited on 20-12-2006 by Viper]
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demon

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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2006, 09:40:37 AM »

I agree and probably i am not gone use that feature in my net.. but many ask for it..

Lets count the networks use Unreal ircd for example and those use ircu for example.. unreal become famous and popular because of their new features not other ircd offers.. if someone wants only stable services with just ns cs ms os could go with ircservices.. but if someone want stability but also nice features with many ways of use and want the ability to choose of features want to use would come here.... i think you get my point.. We could have been ok without any problem by using just the first ircds.. but hey.. world develops..moves.. if someone wants to be static..probably leaves in other world.. not our :)

Thanks
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Jobe

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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2006, 12:45:17 PM »

Personally i see no point in the feature anyway. I was at one point opering on a network using KickServices which had this feature and after 1 or 2 /ns info's it gets really annoying. So to be honest i cant see it as being a good feature.
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katsklaw

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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2006, 01:21:38 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by Viper
he has a point... if users can get notified when some1 uses /whois on them, why not do the same for /ns info.. doesn't mean i see the point in being notified though...


Justifying the existance of something pointless with something else that's equaly pointless doesn't make any sense.

That would be like saying it's ok to create a solar powered flashlight that only works in direct sunlight because a nightlight with the same ability already exists.

One might argue that "if I don't like the module, then don't use it" and that's normaly a valid arguement. I've told people that myself. However, with modules like this I and other people like me that frequently visit other networks that use Anope will have the module loaded as the same with the hundreds of Unreal nets I've seen and stupid users write scripts that are "cool" because they can now kick/ban/kill/akill/gline users for exercising their right to see who they are talking to on IRC. For many many years IRCops have been teaching users to /whois people, especially if they claim to be an IRCop. Today expereinced users like myself cringe when they /whois people in fear of be "punished" for doing something completely innocent. I've been glined countless times for using /whois and even once for /whoising a net admin more than 2 times in 30 minutes. That's right 2 times in 30 minutes!!!! So even though I don't use umode +W and I've said all along that it's a pointless feature that we don't need, I am still victimized by it at least once a week. All because some jackass thought it would be cool to have it. What's worse is now there is a module that allows USERS to see when users /whois them!! Oh Great .. now I can fear being ejected from channels because I /whois'ed a ChanOp!! That's how stupid people that umode +W are getting. It's not the function I'm worried about. It's the stupid things the IRC ignorant can and eventually will do with it. It's driving away many of the otherwise loyal IRC users.

IRC users have a RIGHT to /whois or /ns info the people, it's for their own safety, and we as IRCops/admin should encourage users to know who they are talking to.  They NEED to knowwho they are. Yes, I'm rather old fashioned when it comes to IRC, but I know that technology will advance. So long as that advancement is in a constructive way, then I'm all for it. This module would be as constructive as give a murderer a box of bullets for Christmas.

Just because something CAN be written, doesn't mean it needs to be written.

[Edited on 20-12-2006 by katsklaw]
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demon

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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2006, 04:45:46 PM »

katsklaw that there are stupid users/opers dont mean that we dont code.. +W used to make opers know if someone is looking for an oper and go help them.. not for spy and say hey its "cool" to know when someone whoising me.. that the point of that module too! you will know that someone is looking for you and you go to help him etc.. that fact that some stupids find it cool and use it for coolness is not sth concerns me.. so i find that module as useful as the +W :)

Thanks
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katsklaw

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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2006, 10:42:05 PM »

demon, I can go on for hours about thousands of events that happen everyday in real life where someone stupid caused a rule/law to be created prohibiting an innocent act. If you don't believe me, try boarding an airplane with a gallon of glass cleaner in your hand. So yes, there are times that choosing not to code something is the better solution.

/whois has NEVER meant someone needs help. /whois is for viewing publicly available information about a specific user.  It's not an invitation for you to /msg them for any reason. It's just not needed. Think of it like having a sliding glass window on a submarine. If a user needs help they will join the help channel! I don't know who told you that you are supposed to offer help when a person /whois' you .. but I promise, they are mistaken. More times than not the user doesn't need help. I'd imagine the "go and help" thing was some excuse created as to why umode +W was needed in the first place. Believe me, I've been around as a NetAdmin for a long long time. QuakeNet is currently the largest IRC network in the world and I was an IRCop before they existed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not boasting in any kind of "I know everything" or "I'm better than you" fashoin. I'm just saying I know ALOT about IRC and common practices and /whois being a help system is definately false.

Not to mention that /whois requests do not directly affect the person being whois'ed. All that data is stored on the ircd and given when requested. Infact, having the ircd tell you who/when you was whoised wastes more of your bandwidth that the user that whoised you in the first place.

If you are worried about the fabled "whois flood" ... don't. A user that makes multiple whois requests will activate their sendQ LONG before they have any type of remotely damaging effect on the ircd.

If you are so paranoid that you *must* know when someone /whois'ed you, get off the internet and go seek professional counceling. Beyond that, there is not *real* reason for umode +W and this cs/ns spy request is in the exact same position.

IF you want it coded so badly, then I suggest you learn how and code it yourself. I doubt anyone of sound mind will use it but you. Not to mention that you'd likely get it faster.

I also feel obligated to say that we are under a feature freeze to start with, nothing new is being added or deleted from the core until after 1.8 is declared as the stable branch, so these requests, regardless of how useful or earthmoving will not be added anyway and some of your requests require core changes.

I'm done here.


[Edited on 20-12-2006 by katsklaw]
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demon

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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 11:12:41 AM »

I respect  your opinion but is dont believe it is the right one :)

because i am bored too saying the same.. those who suggest the +W for informing opers that are /whoised made to help more the users.. is like the /stats p you do and look for opers in some ircds.. (because not supported in all ircds) and so if i am an oper and i do someone whoising me.. i could go and help him.. Thats my point in that module too, if someone do /ns info on me probably it searches for me.. want sth from me and i can go to speak with him.. the same for the /cs info.. if i am the founder and i get a notice like that i am the most suitable person to ask any question a user may have.. when you do /cs info or /ns info you look for sth.. email url access or whatever else.. so the owner or nick/chan is the best person who can give the user the info he wants (if the owner like it.. i said will be options..)! Lets stop it there and if someone wants and find it "cool" or useful just code it :)
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DragonRyder

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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 06:14:32 PM »

i have to agree with katsklaw on the /ns info /cs info - the founder of said channel would have to enter the info there for when a person uses the /cs info #chan all command, and /ns set allows you to enter a fake email and set other "cool" features to protect your identity. so it would be completely pointless to make such a module. as for the +W i use it and it allows me to see when someone does a whois on me - now the only time i concern myself with it - is if my module that permits them to do such commands on a timely fashion (meaning they can not sit there and whois me 100 times in less than 15 seconds) doesnt work - then i will politely let them know to stop being stupid - the next step on abusing the whois is to gzline for a day and so forth.

example:
/ns info ryu all
-NickServ- Ryu is Ryu
-NickServ- Ryu is a services root administrator.
-NickServ-    Is online from: Ryu@*
-NickServ-   Time registered: Dec 22 21:37:45 2005 MST
-NickServ- Last quit message: Quit:
-NickServ-               URL: *
-NickServ-    E-mail address: Ryu@*
-NickServ-             vhost: *
-NickServ-     Greet message: The Ugliest MoFo U Ever Met!
-NickServ-           Options: Protection, Security, Private
-NickServ- This nickname will not expire.

all information there i can change using the /ns set commands. so why make a module to show me someone was checking my info? same with the /cs set things can be set there as well - so i still have no need to be informed that someone was checking out my channels info.

anyways - have fun coming back with a more viable legite reason to have such a module made.
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demon

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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2007, 10:21:23 PM »

I said the reason.. some people request it because they want to know when someone is /ns info them.. if someone do that means that he wants to know about you.. so why when you see that dont go and chat with him if you want?

I think that a module like that exist for older Anope Services..

The one for /cs info of course not.. but its the same philosofy.. WHY opers could see the /stats p which means someone is looking for them? or why having the +W mode to know when someone whoising them to go and help him? If you see someone want info about your chan you can go and give them to him.. That simple..

Thanks

PS: if someone know the module for /ns info spy post it here plz.. after than the /cs info spy wouldnt be too difficult to be coded..
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