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Author Topic: os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]  (Read 5346 times)

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Romeo

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os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]
« on: January 14, 2011, 05:36:16 PM »

Okay.. with this script,  I who is network admin, can join anychan via svsjoin. Except for channels with +i and +k..  ummm.. might as well just use /join
So i asked Jobe last night , and the reponse was svsjoin is like /j
im not saying jobe doesnt know what he is saying, but i find that hard to believe, as this is a oper command, should be able to overide  all that +k and +i and +b. Such as the sa command. I thought the svsjoin would be like the sajoin.
Anyone care to explain for me.?
 thanks
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Jan Milants

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Re: os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 09:18:37 PM »

Jobe is correct...

You seem to be misunderstanding SVSJOIN.. it is not even an oper command!!
SVSJOIN is a server-to-server command and on most ircd's can only be send by ulines. SVSJOIN instructs the ircd to join a user to a channel, but without overriding any of that channel's safeguards.

I think you may be confusing SAJOIN and SVSJOIN here... SAJOIN is a command send by clients to an IRCd and is designed to be used by services admins to force users into joining a channel. SVSJOIN on the other hand is a server-to-server command mainly intended to be used by services for example to handle auto-join lists. (Cf. ns_ajoin, it relies heavily on SVSJOIN.) The exact implementation of SVSJOIN may differ depending on the ircd, but in all that I've seen most join restrictions are respected.

This behaviour can be illustrated by simply trying to SVSJOIN someone to a channel where they are banned: the user will see a message saying he is unable to join channel #XXX because he is banned. So the ircd is acting exactly as if the user initiated the join.
When an oper were to issue an sajoin on the other hand, the user would be joined regardless the ban and the user will get a message he was forced to join channel #XXX.

You may note that ns_ajoin still joins users to +i and +k channels, but it does so only after checking that the user has sufficient rights to override those restrictions. If the user has enough rights, ns_ajoin will issue an INVITE or remove a matching ban (depending on user access). Because SVSJOIN behaves the same way as a client issued JOIN, issuing an INVITE before joining a +k or +i channel will override said restrictions..
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katsklaw

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Re: os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 11:40:34 PM »

I'd also like to point out another misunderstanding. Just because you are an oper/netadmin and are using an oper level command should you expect to have access to bypass everything. Opers are not Godly like people that can banwalk anything to anywhere. Opers are to take care of the servers and the channel operators are to take care of their own respective channels. This is just simply how IRC works and always has.

Please read: http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/ircd/opermyth.html This is written for EFNet but still applies to IRC in general today and everyday, please notice the date. :)

Ban/mode walking around anywhere you please is a really good way to lose users. If you want to gain users, provide a safe, stable environment for your users to do their own thing and then let them do it.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 11:43:11 PM by katsklaw »
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Romeo

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Re: os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 03:52:33 PM »

katsklaw, i knew eventually someone would say that. But honestly this is not the case. The other day some ppl wanted to move their channel to my network.,
BUt something on my end stopped em. They asked if i had 24hr surveillance. I dont. But heres another thing. I have 2 netadmins, 1 service admin and 4 globals.
2 netadmins hardly online..
1 service admin-- sometimes online
4global admins always online.
 Well 1 of the globals asked, what if an owner needs us becuase i dumb as managd to breech security and took over channel. Or what if someone reports an illlegal thing. How do globals handle it? They cant join the channel. because some will have +i only or +i and +k.  In order to do sajoin, u require service admin. And i dont want someone to acidently restart services or toy with too much.
next, with all this in mind, i do ask owners before channels are created, do u mind if an oper jumps in n out every now and then.. no modes needed to be given,  just jump in, maybe say hi n leave.  they like that. sometimes they say for an oper to idle in there... so i see where u r coming from, but i m not misusing or letting someone misuse powers. thnks for the warning tho.

************edit*************
well after reading the efnet law.. ive come to the conclusion of this.. forget it.. i woulda thought its usefull. as i trust my staff.... but oh well, i see where efnet was going.. ty for help katsklaw
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 05:04:42 PM by Romeo »
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katsklaw

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Re: os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2011, 02:36:18 AM »

I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your network, I'm hoping I can help you. Please understand that IRC has existed for many years without the abilities it currently does. I personally spent many nights opered on a 140,000 user network with only 4 other opers armed only with standard oper comands and /samode only. We did just fine. Channels can't really be taken over as long as services is connected. With services connected, you do in a way, have 24 hour surveillance.

None of what you described really has anything to do with this module. It still doesn't change the fact that opers don't need SVSCMD access.

Since this topic has completely gone askew and I really don't you to think I'm bossing you around, I certainly am not. The opermyth link was for enlightenment, there is no such thing as "EFNet law" nor would it apply to anything outside EFNet. The article was written by a highly experienced IRCop (that happened to oper on EFnet) and it was an attempt to help you learn something.

There is nothing that SVS* commands can do that you can't do without them to truly protect your network.

Joining or interacting in a channel as an IRCop when you have permission or access to is not the same as what I was talking about. I'm talking about abuse, which is extremely easy to do, even by accident. If you have malicious users, just simply ban them, you don't need SVS* access to akill/gline.

As a departing suggestion, you can give your globals the +a flag in their oper blocks. No they can't use them while services is present, but they can if services is missing because nothing will stop the +a for staying. This way you have extra services admins in the very rare event services is missing.

That's all I'm saying in public. I've caused this topic to step sidesways far enough.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 03:30:51 AM by katsklaw »
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Leon

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Re: os_svsjoinpart [COMPLETELY CONFUSED]
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 08:45:49 PM »

Romeo,

you can also invite your self as netadmin like /invite #chan yournick
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